It is strange that I'm shocked he's died, when he was nearly 90.

He was quite the mentalist.

Camper than Liberace.

There'd likely be no Elton without him.

I thought he died in about 1959.

I was only reminding myself on Wikipedia a couple of weeks ago of his current status.

He had one of the best smiles in rock 'n' roll.

He did an immense job of being a screaming queen in his day.

A gay black man.

I guess he managed to hide it all in plain sight in bravura style.

Gurning and nutter out-nuttering the psychopathic misanthrope redneck Jerry Lee Lewis.

A pioneer.

A kind of vaudeville act, but with actual material.

Like Fangirl, I also had a vague notion he hadn't seen 1960. A late 50's plane crash or something.

And what exactly is wrong with vaudeville NJ?

My grandfathers grandmother started in vaudeville, before specializing in 'serio-comedic' performances, and then blended both with stage acting. We are all very proud of her - by all accounts she was a very difficult, wickedly selfish, and shockingly wayward slapper.

She only killed herself after a triumphant post WWI return to the stage, after which she waited to read that the reviews in the next day's papers were positive. Only then did she go to join the son in the sky, who hadn't come back from the front.

Such is the stuff of which I am made. You don't come up through vaudeville without the character to survive.

Rest in paradise, Little Richard.

cosmictanya wrote:

Like Fangirl, I also had a vague notion he hadn't seen 1960. A late 50's plane crash or something.

Yes. I was fairly sure there'd been a plane crash.

Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, Big Bopper?

I don't really care how modern life judges Little Richard now, but to state you were no longer gay after "turning to God and becoming straight" was a daring, intriguing, and rather unique thing to do in the celebrity world. And the one thing you can't accuse Little Richard of it not being unique.

I can see Julian Clary going down this route in the future.

I'm not sure submitting to evidence free psychological abuse is daring or intriguing. Depending on location, it's sadly not unique either. The numbers of vulnerable men - mainly, who have been and continue to be tortured by charlatans who should not only be struck from professional practice, but also doing serious time, is unreal.

"Special place in hell", etc. Creating and defending space for people to live the very best versions of themselves is incumbent on us all. Almost nothing is more important than that.

I'd eat my hat if Julian Clary had the slightest houseroom for such a thing as 'conversion therapy'.

I didn't say I liked it and can disagree with some of his comments just like I can disagree with any other celebrity's comments. I just find it unique and fascinatingly controversial - how many other celebrities have publicly come out then publicly gone back in the closet?

I don't think of religion as psychological abuse, but then I've been there and lived to tell the tale and am no more messed up than some people who have shunned religion completely. I hope he was happy enough in whatever frame of mind he himself ended up in - gay, straight or whatever conclusion he came to. Every gay person has a different take on life and the lives of others; and for that matter so does every religious person.

No doubt. Please don't think I'm having a go at you, or your beliefs, or trying to make a wider point about organized worship*. I simply say, if that's what Little Richard was subjected to, that's a very sad thing. The joys of life belong to all of us, no matter who we are. It's totally effed up.

Falling in love with who you will, and developing/refining the carnal knowledge and desire that drive your very core, is one the few pleasures of adulthood. That beside, adulthood isn't all it's cracked up to be. We all have to take our consensual pleasures wherever they may be.

*My understanding is that the vast majority of organised religious groups support what I've said. So called 'conversion' therapy is a cruel con trick at best, and at worst actively dangerous. Either way, it doesn't operate in the world of peer reviewed evidence, and for good reason - it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The idea of someone/anyone living half a life, and denying themselves the happiness their own feelings can provide - that's heartbreaking. It also steals (mostly in secret, until it falls to bits) from the partner they 'settle' for, who had an equal right to be loved in the way they desired, rather than used as an unwitting experiment.

I was surprised how many religious records he put and so early too.

Virtually every black Soul or R&B artist was brought up in deeply religious (Christian) families and communities.

What's more, their talents would've been recognised and nurtured within the church setting as gospel musicians - singers and organists especially.

I can't think of single one who wasn't in fact.

Many of them, after they became big stars in the secular world of pop music, either struggled deeply with a perceived 'turning your back on God' psychological crisis, or revisited religious themes time and again.

Many also, in later life, indeed became pastors and preachers and ceased making pop music altogether, instead releasing music of a devoutly religious nature.

Penance and all that.

I don't want Butterfield to feel like I was trying to pick a fight over this. I didn't actually say anything about religion, only about peddlers of snake oil 'therapies'. If some religious people recognize themselves in that category of person, that's their lookout.

I just think that this man being made to feel defective and confused is really sad, bleak. There are still kids today having these 'values' imposed on them, and people causing real harm and making money out of offering to 'fix' people who have nothing wrong with them.

cosmictanya wrote:

tortured by charlatans who should not only be struck from professional practice, but also doing serious time, is unreal.

Struck from professional practice for being charlatans, jailed for fraud - I was indeed talking about 'psychologists' offering/pushing/selling conversion therapy. I said nothing about priests, nuns, rabbis, vicars, imams, etc, nor of the propensity or not of various organised religions to encourage mental and emotional abuse.

He's good value in this Dick Cavett show:

https://youtu.be/KLEEoBhTw5A?t=3560

should have got him on with Mort Sahl.